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Formation Flying guidelines.

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Formation Flying guidelines. Empty Formation Flying guidelines.

Post by Guest Wed 02 Mar 2016, 01:57

Reflecting on Tuesdays training session caused me a lot analysis (mostly self analysis) and head scratching. Shocked

I believe that guidelines need to be defined and practised for B Company training session formation flying.

Considering SOP's and further advice I propose these guidelines:

On take off, terrain permitting, the leading aircraft should accelerate with around 5 degrees nose down but care must be taken to not accelerate too quickly and leave the flight scrambling to catch up.

The initial rate of climb must be enough to clear barriers with a safety margin.

Trailing aircraft to manoeuvre into the formation and attain a stepped-up vertical separation as soon as possible permitting acceleration and climb to undisturbed air.

Once the flight is airborne and established, the lead aircraft can slowly and smoothly accelerate to normal climb or cruise airspeed.

Altitude and airspeed changes should be smooth and gradual especially during tight and close formations.

The lead aircraft should make smooth constant rate turns and avoid angles of bank greater than 30 degrees.

Consider using trim to maintain a constant speed in level flight.

In initial training sessions 80 knots cruising speed will allow easier flight formation correction of the ‘accordion effect’ .  If some pilots are very inexperienced in formation  flying then consider a cruising speed of 60 knots.

Approaching the LZ flight lead should maintain “straight and level” flight until the desired landing approach angle is intercepted and ideally aim for 60 knots at the inbound RP 3-5 km from the LZ.

Flight lead should aim to maintain a constant approach angle.

There is no such thing as ‘too slow’ but de-acceleration should be constant and controlled at all times.

Pilots may make minor adjustments for obstacles within the landing formation.

During the last 20’-30’ or so of descent all pilots will concentrate on individual landing area and not the formation.

All aircraft should touch down at the same time while maintaining their relative positions within the Flight - do not taxi to correct a perceived formation position error.

If it is not possible to execute a safe approach and landing, a go‐around will be executed prior to descending below any obstacles or losing ETL.

For practice purposes, the lead shall give a running commentary of intent - there is no need for acknowledgement unless it is obvious that an acknowledgement should be made.

Dependent on the abilities of the pilots in the formation, the end goal is successful formation flight without commentary and this should be practised.

Guest
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Formation Flying guidelines. Empty Re: Formation Flying guidelines.

Post by (A/229) Javelina Wed 02 Mar 2016, 02:14

Thanks Gizzy. Some very helpful info and insight. I know for fixed wing, it was a bit of effort for proper formation and alignments, (depending on the tactical situation at hand). But as with everything, practice, practice, practice.

I'm learning more with the Whirlybirds, and loving this module ever more. thanks again. This was very helpful.

-jav
(A/229) Javelina
(A/229) Javelina

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Location : WAFB, Arizona

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Post by (B/229) evilivan Wed 02 Mar 2016, 08:23

Good stuff Gizzy, thanks.

Out of interest, why this?

(B/229) Gizzy wrote:All aircraft should touch down at the same time while maintaining their relative positions within the Flight - do not taxi to correct a perceived formation position error.

...I'm sure there is a good reason, I just can't think of it (and it would be my instinct to return to position).

(B/229) evilivan
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Post by Guest Wed 02 Mar 2016, 09:41

My take:
Keeps good order within LZ, a potentially dangerous area which in RL would have a lot going on, people embarking, disembarking etc often immediately on touchdown thereby it follows that in a crowded LZ for some one to start taxing about on their own initiative rather than on command or direction would be a bad idea.

Real Reason:
SIX said 'THOU SHALT NOT! Smile Smile

Guest
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Post by (B/229) evilivan Wed 02 Mar 2016, 10:57

(B/229) Gizzy wrote:My take:
Keeps good order within LZ, a potentially dangerous area which in RL would have a lot going on, people embarking, disembarking etc often immediately on touchdown thereby it follows that in a crowded LZ  for some one to start taxing about on their own initiative rather than on command or direction would be a bad idea.

Real Reason:
SIX said 'THOU SHALT NOT! Smile Smile

Both make sense, the second has much more logic behind it than the first of course Laughing

Thanks.

(B/229) evilivan
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Post by Guest Wed 02 Mar 2016, 11:10

Slightly condensed version in a jpg image.

right click over it and select 'save image as' etc....

Rename to give a suitable positioning within you own kneeboard stack and you will always have it with you for reference, if you want that is?

Formation Flying guidelines. 25343829991_18f0ceffe2_o

Guest
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Formation Flying guidelines. Empty Re: Formation Flying guidelines.

Post by (B/229) Cib Wed 02 Mar 2016, 11:50

I think the part about considering using trim should be removed. Trim is important in properly controlling the aircraft and should not be optional Imo
(B/229) Cib
(B/229) Cib
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Post by Guest Wed 02 Mar 2016, 12:48

(B/229) Cib wrote:I think the part about considering using trim should be removed. Trim is important in properly controlling the aircraft and should not be optional Imo

Certainly trim is important but in the Huey, in R/L I am led to believe there is very differing views on  Force Trim use.

I believe that the use of force trim in the Huey certainly is not mandatory but in many circumstances it is highly desirable.

At 60 knots in stable flight no trim is required, the aircraft is trim stable in pitch so to speak, so, what to say about trim.

In the DCS environment regarding Huey trim, the use of it, how often and in what circumstances will often depend on the equipment the pilot is using i.e. TMWH reversed springs, normal springs, home made strings, 7cm, 12, 15, 20cm extensions, bespoke collective with damping, X55 with whatever spring tension,  etc.

I gave this a lot of thought before mentioning trim as this subject can be controversial.

Removing the statement removes a focus on the trim function as an option for the newcomer.

Making Force Trim mandatory in my view is not good either.

Flying a trimmed aircraft in flight lead is, I believe what we should aim to achieve.

Using a TMWH normal stick & spring at 80 knots for any length of time, force trim use could be  essential but perhaps not so for someone using a TMWH with the springs reversed and a 20cm extension fitted.

Lets be honest, at the end of the day  I am only a FNG naff pilot trying to generate interest and introduce some sort of structure  within a group of keen lads which often pull in different directions -  so you could well be right...

So with respect, I'll leave it in unless the GODS IP's or youself, in guise as my superior, the platoon leader, direct otherwise.

Guest
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Post by (D/229) Xtra Wed 02 Mar 2016, 13:54

I find trim in DCS optional. For me personally it doesnt represent the real deal and I Just remove my springs from the stick to keep position. Whatever works for your setup best counts.
(D/229) Xtra
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Post by (D/229) Xtra Wed 02 Mar 2016, 13:55

Or just basically what Gizzy said Smile
(D/229) Xtra
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Post by (B/229) Cib Sat 05 Mar 2016, 15:44

(D/229) Xtra wrote:I find trim in DCS optional. For me personally it doesnt represent the real deal and I Just remove my springs from the stick to keep position. Whatever works for your setup best counts.
When your stick is pushed forward and stays in the same position would you say the aircraft was trimmed or not.
My previous post is not quite what I meant to convey. Rather it is the individual who decides what is best for their requirements rather than the manoeuvre deciding whether they should trim. For Tyro pilots I think trim is more useful than not. And tyro pilots are not possibly aware the springs can be removed or modded
(B/229) Cib
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